I'm no editor, but I'd love to read your stuff TT and I'd be happy to give you some constructive criticism. I've done some "assistant" editorial work for a couple of old local publications and newsletters, and helped out a couple of college composition professors at the community college here. It would give you another set of eyes from a different perspective at least.

That being said, I agree with the consensus here that you shouldn't change an ending (or anything else for that matter) just because one or two people said you should, even if they are "big shots". Everyone is going to have a different opinion of your stuff, and there are going to be plenty of people that just won't be able to see it the way you intended it to be seen. Some will like it, and some won't. But don't let the naysayers wreck things for you. Be confident in your work, and you will find an audience.

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"Just because it's a mild night doesn't mean that dark forces aren't abroad."

Hey, thanks to all you wanted to read the story! I really loved the feedback. Everyone has told me that I should keep the ending (including Lauel and Thad who had already read it) and I will do that and submit it to someone else. One reader found a mistake that I had missed (and I was very grateful for having it pointed out to me) along with some other advice including grammar hints (which I need).

You guys were great! You all made me feel like a Steve Vernon or a Pic for a few days with your comments! Thank you all so very much. I really liked this story, it's a bit different than how I normally write, and it is so gratifying to see that others like it also.


Tony
ttzuma

Don't let them get you down.

I wish they'd stop appending little messages to their responses. All I really require from an editor is a "Yes" or a "No." Anything else just gets provoking.

One of my favorite rejections was for a nonfiction work called "Interpreter." The publisher thought the project was "riveting and important, however, we do not feel we could successfully promote it in the current marketplace."

First of all, what's with the royal we? What are you, the pope? The queen of France? Please. And isn't it the publisher's job to figure out how to promote books in the marketplace? What? There are so many "riveting and important" manuscripts on your desk that you can afford to pass on one? Are you trying to drive me crazy?

Don't get me started. It's a wonder more writers don't end up on rooftops with rifles.

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http://www.UninvitedBooks.com

What everybody else said...

I've been at this game for nearly 18 years now, and still get rejected. It's only in the past two years that I've started picking up pro sales. I'm with Steve Vernon... this shit takes time.

I have two mottos

nil desperandum
No retreat and no surrender.

Willie

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"One of the premier storytellers of our time" - FAMOUS MONSTERS OF FILMLAND
William Meikle

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"There's no law, no law anymore - I wanna steal from the rich and give to the poor."
~The Ramones~

This thread made me think of how Tony is getting published everywhere these days. Necon ebooks, Horror World, Epitaphs, you name it.

This thread is amazing.

Hmm - I may actually take Craig off double-secret probation for resurrecting this one!

Jeez, this is an old thread, isn't it? Still hits a nerve though. For all of us, I'd guess.

Tony, buddy, the world is full of people – some of whom believe themselves to be terribly important – who would tell you that you should always listen to what an editor has to say, that this is the way to learn.

Ignore them.

Nobody’s opinion matters but your own. If your work is good, you know it. When it’s not, you’ll know that too. Listen to your instincts. I always say, a writer only wants one of two responses from an editor: “yes, please” or “no, thank you.” Anything else is gratuitous. The editor is not teaching a course you’re taking.

Obviously, you need to temper this with a little common sense. I mean, if Alexander Woolcott (or whoever) writes to say he’ll publish your work in the New Yorker if you’ll just fix this or that, you pay strict attention. But if Ida Slapter at Dripping Gash E-Zine insists that your work just isn’t up to her high standards and wants to explain exactly why you stink, you have a good laugh, make a note never to send her anything again, and move on.

Capiche?

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http://www.UninvitedBooks.com

Capiche.

I'm of the belief that you should always listen to what an editor, or a reader, or a critic says. Key word here being "listen" and not necessarily "do." You listen to what everyone says, and in some cases they'll actually help to make your writing stronger. They'll find gaffs and logic errors and awkward phrases and cuts you can make and other things you *might* consider changing to make the work better. Always keep an open ear and then decide. Don't automatically say you know best and your work is just perfect as is. A good editor (rare though they may be, they do exist) can help your work immensely, especially in the beginning.

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Tom Piccirilli is the author of over 20 novels including SHADOW SEASON, THE COLD SPOT, and A CHOIR OF ILL CHILDREN. www.thecoldspot.blogspot.com

i flounce out of this every other day

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Lord Of The Mountain available at:

Flounce?

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http://www.UninvitedBooks.com

Flounce = "to exit in a grand high huff, reeking of indignation and slightly-crapped in drawers"

If I recollect correctly this was originally coined when a certain writer (not me) decided to remove himself from a certain messageboard - (might have been Shocklines or possibly the HWA board).

(flouncing, stage right)

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FLASH VIRUS: EPISODE ONE (always free)

FLASH VIRUS:EPISODE TWO ($1.99)

Ah, so it's an alternative form of transportation. As one might arrive in a snit, one might depart in a flounce. (Also see "flounce off.")

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http://www.UninvitedBooks.com

Excellent advice from Rob and Tom.

I recently went through a reader critique experience that was invaluable. No, I didn't take on board every single thing, but there was certainly enough insight to make me go back, dig in, and make things a whole lot better - jarring phrases, pacing, repetition - 90k words plus and it's easy to miss.


Unfortunately there's a whole boatload of awful advice out there, too, from the likes of Ida Slapter and Don Callmeillcallyou, and some writers like Lofty Sniggering, Captain Condescension and I. Lykta Pontificate. (I'm starting to sound like Ted Casablanca. Rob, see what you did?) This is a very prohibitive business and some of the attitudes are appalling.

I was very recently told "A good writer should be able to turn their hand to anything." That's like telling a violinist "A good musician should..." and pointing toward a piano. Yeah well, fuck you, buddy.

And no one ever seems to get paid! What's with that??

Okay, now Jill has come out and I need to shove her back in her cage. Apologies. Please carry on.

They all had something to say that was worth listening to and heeding. And while at first glance some of their advice is contradictory, it really isn't if you pay attention to what they were saying.

I find that when I ask someone to read what I wrote, I usually do it in the beginning phase, and that's mostly to find out if what I am trying to get across makes sense and that there is a logical flow to it. If the feedback isn't too bad I keep on doing what I was doing. In a recent case, I am working on a large (for me) story that is told in three parts and I just didn't know if what I was doing was working. Once my pal read it and assured me that it made some sense and threw in a few recommendations, I plunged into the revising and editing mode. I cut out a ton of stuff (I hate doing that) and added a little bit more, and now I really feel that the story is on track.

I brought the first part to my writing group and though they were aghast at the horror elements in the story, they enjoyed it. They picked up additional tense problems that I missed and other small issues that I could have been more clear on. The best thing was that they had a long discussion on the story between themselves, dissecting the plot and and pointing out the real strong parts; I actually felt like I wasn't even a part of the discussion for awhile. They enjoyed it so much they asked me to submit the second portion for next month, and we never do two stories from the same author in a row.

I've still got the third portion to finish, and I figure it will be done by May. I hope to submit it to someone in July, but I am afraid it will be too long, but we'll see. Bringing this thread back up, and all the responses, including Jill's...er...Janet's...is very inspiring. This writing stuff is hard work, but very rewarding in it's own way.

I have to disagree with some folks here. When you are just starting out (selling stories #1 through #5, let's say, to major markets - stress "major") you really don't know better. Your major market editor, on the other hand, does. I remember the back and forth correspondence with George Scithers at Asimov's after he expressed interest in buying what became my first published story. It came down to a question of "A" or "B". I wanted "A"; Scithers wanted "B". Scithers finally said, "Well, do you want to sell this story to me or not?" We went with "B". The story was published in a magazine alongside stories by Randall Garrett, Samuel R. Delany, Joe Haldeman and Roger Zelazny, made Terry Carr's "Best Of" list as an honorable mention that year, and was even nominated by a few for the Hugo. Thank you, George. As Tom says: I always listen when an editor I respect has a suggestion. It is just a professional way to do business.

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Keith Minnion

One thing to keep in mind (and I wish I could find a link for this) is that, when people have surveyed editors as to why they rejected stories, it's not always because they disliked the story. There are many reasons, off the top of my head all of the below were at least as likely to cause a rejection as the story itself being shite:

a) incorrectly formatted
b) too similar in tone/plot/pace etc. to an already accepted story
c) not a fit with the magazine/anthology's ethos/brand etc.
Etc.

You can sort out a), which immdiately ups your odds, and you can minimise c) by doing your research on the market. But b) you can do bugger all about, really. Which is why all but the real bigshots will continue to get rejections throughout their careers.

God knows how many I've had by now. The best feeling was when someone who had previously rejected my stories two or three times emailed asking me to contribute..!

Good luck all!

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Scattershot Writing:

Saw this via David Mack on the facebook. Aside from the usual it digs into the thought processes of creativity and there are further links.

I'm ready to give up too!

Fuck all this shit!

(Hello .... )

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"There's no law, no law anymore - I wanna steal from the rich and give to the poor."
~The Ramones~

Hmmmm...hello back. If you're giving up your smoke, well then, pass it along!

Hiya, dude!

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"There's no law, no law anymore - I wanna steal from the rich and give to the poor."
~The Ramones~