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| I'm Ready To Give Up... http://horrorworld.org/msgboards/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5681 |
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| Author: | ttzuma [ Wed Dec 17, 2008 11:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | I'm Ready To Give Up... |
I just got another rejection notice. This time they said they liked the story, it was "highly engaging and wonderfully wierd" but it lacked a punch at the end. For those that read it, it was the one I called "Eyes". They wanted to read more of my stuff, but this is the only story I ever wrote like this, it was very Steve Vernon inspired. This is the second time I've been told my endings stink. The first time on another story the editor raved about it and asked if I could change the ending. I didn't know what to do, and I added some lame ending to it. That one didn't work either. That one was also different from how I normally write. This writing stuff is so damn frustrating... How does someone get advice on ending a story? What makes a story so entertaining and then someone says they don't like the ending when I thought it was the perfect ending? Tt |
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| Author: | Tom Piccirilli [ Wed Dec 17, 2008 11:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I'm Ready To Give Up... |
It's all part of the game. Rejection. Conflicting critiques. Folks who'll love one story and hate another, and those who'll feel the exact opposite. It's hard to find your voice and your narrative footing in the early days, but eventually you'll learn the sound of your own voice. For the record, I used to keep my rejections in a folder I called THE FUCK YOU, TOM file. I got bounced at least 300 times in the floundering early days. And that was before email. 300 subs sent out in the mail with cover letters and self addressed stamped envelopes attached. Keep writing, keep learning, keep honing your craft, and keep fighting the good fight. |
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| Author: | Hellolost [ Thu Dec 18, 2008 12:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I'm Ready To Give Up... |
What floats someone's boat does not float everyones. Can you submit it to someone else? Do not give up! If this is what you love continue. <---did NOT get to read it  Seriously though bumps make us stronger. They hurt like hell when we smash our head on the roof but they make the trip more worth it. I fully believe that you can do this. |
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| Author: | horrordude [ Thu Dec 18, 2008 12:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I'm Ready To Give Up... |
Hey! There is no giving up in writing!  Don't get down. You have to take the rejections, spit at them, and say, "Oh yeah, eat this then." And start typing the minute you're done reading the rejection. And I save all my online rejections in a folder I've titled Shit Slips. Look at what Tom said up there: can you imagine a writer like The Pic Man getting that many rejections? I'm 36, and even though I've been writing since I was eighteen, I just began submitting stories this last year. I've had editors tell me all kinds of crap that could get me down, if I allowed it to. I worked hard on one story a little while back, and the editor called my characters generic. That pissed me off and just made me sit down and start writing double time that day. And whatever ending you think is right for a story that you wrote, is how it should be. Endings in stories are a weird subject. Some endings in stories don't really end, but leave the reader to fill in what may have happened. Others have a clear ending, and some stories read like flashes of a longer story. Just keep reading a lot, and most of all, you have to keep doing this:  Trust me. I plan on writing until I'm an old man if I have to. There's Horrordude in a nursing home, tapping away on his word processor, still looking for the right editor. Don't give up Zuma Man. |
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| Author: | Hellolost [ Thu Dec 18, 2008 12:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I'm Ready To Give Up... |
Write because you love it. Getting published is a bonus for doing something you love. It will come!!! |
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| Author: | SteveVernon [ Thu Dec 18, 2008 6:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I'm Ready To Give Up... |
I was talking to a local YA writer the other day - a fellow who has sold books right across Canada, a fellow who has been writing for years with dozens of books and stories and story collections sold - and he still gets manuscripts rejected at a regular rate. Tony, I'm fifty, and I've been writing for about twenty years and I get rejections as often as not. The fact is, it's only been these last few years that I've really felt like I was beginning to get the hang of this writing business - and I still expect many more rejections. Don't let it get you down. Keep writing. Get more stories out there. The best way, I've found, to deal with rejections is numbers. When I was actively marketing my short stories I made it a point to try and get at least two dozen to thirty stories out there, at any given time. So, if (when) a story came back with a rejection slip - I wasn't crushed. I'd just look at it and say - well what the hell I am really counting on those other two dozen stories - and then fire it off to somebody else. Writing is fishing. You throw a line in, nothing bites, throw it back in. You sit there all day, casting and enjoying the process and maybe you catch something and maybe you don't, but if you're doing it properly you learn from your experience and enjoy a good day of fishing. Send the story off to someone else. Write another story. Send that one out. Get as many goddamn lines into the water as you can manage, and then get a few more. Writing is training. Like every fighter - you've got to work the speed bag, the heavy bag, the crazy bag - you've got to keep punching. As for endings - well, like I always say - I don't like to start a story until I know where I'm ending it. A story is a process that your protagonist must endure and enjoy. The ending must be inevitable, unexpected and satisfying. A proper beginning asks a question. A proper ending answers the question. Endings are as tricky as carving proper Santa feet. Endings are the feet that your story stand upon. Endings are tricky. Practice will get you there. Take a look at some of your favorite stories, shit that other writers have written and you've enjoyed and returned to - novel, short story, poem - doesn't matter. Draw yourself a story-map and figure out how that author got there. Above all else, have fun. The rejection is part of the game. Learn from it, don't let it get you down. Read more stories. Write more. Submit more. Nobody starts out good. Everybody can get better. Best is nothing more than a point you're trying to make with your gods. This shit takes time. |
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| Author: | ttzuma [ Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I'm Ready To Give Up... |
Thanks everyone. It is hard to believe that anyone would have rejected anything Tom wrote. Great advice as usual Steve. I guess I just really liked that story and thought the ending was good. I was up until 2:30 last night thinking about that ending. I guess I should have been thinking of another story instead. Reading Tom and Steve's posts did make me feel a bit better about being rejected. Thanks again everyone for the encouragment, I really was depressed. I really had hoped one day to have something published for all my friends here to read, after all, you guys are the inspiration for me and gave me the courage to finally start writing way back when. Tony |
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| Author: | horrordude [ Thu Dec 18, 2008 12:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I'm Ready To Give Up... |
I know Tt always listens to what Laurel says. Laurel, tell Tt not to stop writing. But Steve's right: I sometimes read how long it took certain authors to be published and I just can't believe it. Especially when you read about the giants of classic lit, people like Hemingway, who had over 80 rejections before he was published, always makes my head spin. You grow up reading writers who you think were born publishing their stories and it's just not the case. I mean, can you imagine being the one of the editor's who pissed all over William Golding and then waking up the day Lord of The Flies came out? I would have paid anything to see the looks on their faces after they read that book. There's always going to be the one editor out there who is going to read one of your stories and love it, and then it's just a matter of keeping yourself writing constantly. It's stressful as hell, but I think it pays off in the end if you keep at it. People can't ignore you forever once you start writing the kind of stories that kick ass and take names. It's just a matter of being patient enough and waiting to get to that point. Hey, Horror World wasn't built in a day. 
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| Author: | Monty Grue [ Thu Dec 18, 2008 1:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I'm Ready To Give Up... |
| Author: | Craig Cook [ Thu Dec 18, 2008 2:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I'm Ready To Give Up... |
Tony, Don't stop writing. I've read your stuff, and it's good. Stories are like little kittens, they just need some loving care and to find a good home. I haven't written a word since my daughter was born, and I can honestly say that I miss it. One of my New Year's resolutions is to get back going again. It's not all about sales, although I would love for that to happen. We do this because we enjoy it. |
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| Author: | undead [ Thu Dec 18, 2008 2:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I'm Ready To Give Up... |
Tony, don't give up. Heck, at least you got a rejection notice. Sometimes I don't even get that. Still, write because YOU love it. Write for YOU and write what makes YOU happy. If it clicks with someone, great. If not, try someone else. And look at the folks who have already posted great advice. If Tom Piccirili and Steve Vernon have been rejected more than once, it offers hope for the rst of us mere mortals By the way, if you want, I'll be happy to read Eyes and give my two cents as a reader. You were kind enough to read something of mine and give comments/critique. I'd be more than happy to reciprocate. Hey, we're all in this together. We're here because we love horror, and honestly do not care whether it is in vogue or not. |
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| Author: | Laurel in Ely [ Thu Dec 18, 2008 2:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I'm Ready To Give Up... |
Tt. Don't stop writing!!!! |
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| Author: | DGM [ Thu Dec 18, 2008 2:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I'm Ready To Give Up... |
I'd leave the ending as it is. Unless they make a suggestion about an ending that makes you go "holy shit, what a great idea," I'd leave it alone. Unless of course inspiration strikes you on it's own. Besides, Bentley Little can't end a story for shit and look at him. (Just a little inspiration for you). |
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| Author: | DGM [ Thu Dec 18, 2008 3:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I'm Ready To Give Up... |
Oh, and Tony... you should take solace in the fact that these people actually have the common courtesy to get back to you and not leave you hanging for three years. Yeah. Three years... 
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| Author: | Laurel in Ely [ Thu Dec 18, 2008 3:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I'm Ready To Give Up... |
I agree with D. Even "that guy from Maine" has a stinker ending every now and again. |
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| Author: | ttzuma [ Thu Dec 18, 2008 3:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I'm Ready To Give Up... |
Thanks guys. I shouldn't have posted this last night, but I really liked that story and thought it had a good shot. I was just so bummed out. Like I said, I liked the ending and when he said it didn't have punch my shoulders just dropped. DGM, you are right, I shouldn't change an ending unless I think it will make it better, I did that with a story called Husband and I've regretted it since. And you are right about being grateful that they responded. To let you know I wrote them back today and thanked them for looking at it. Monty, I tried something different and I loved what I did. I did not copy Steve's style of writing, I just used his style as an inspiration to try something different. You would never read my story and think it was a Steve Vernon tale. I like the way he can take the absurd and make it interesting and fun, that's what inspiered me. Thank you for the offer Undead. If anyone wants to read it let me know and I will be happy to let them read it and offer a critique. Both Laurel and Thad have seen it and they were very open and honest with me on it. And thanks Craig, Tom, Steve, Hellolost, and Horrordude (I always do listen to Laurel!  ).Tony |
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| Author: | Laurel in Ely [ Thu Dec 18, 2008 3:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I'm Ready To Give Up... |
| Author: | Hellolost [ Thu Dec 18, 2008 3:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I'm Ready To Give Up... |
It still does have a good shot Ttzuma. Just not with the idiot who just read it. 
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| Author: | TMLCrow [ Thu Dec 18, 2008 6:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I'm Ready To Give Up... |
I don't quit, you don't quit. Man Law #103. |
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| Author: | DGM [ Thu Dec 18, 2008 6:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I'm Ready To Give Up... |
I thought Man Law #103 was "never go to the bathroom in groups." 
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| Author: | TMLCrow [ Thu Dec 18, 2008 6:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I'm Ready To Give Up... |
| Author: | DGM [ Thu Dec 18, 2008 6:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I'm Ready To Give Up... |
| Author: | TMLCrow [ Thu Dec 18, 2008 6:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I'm Ready To Give Up... |
| Author: | DGM [ Thu Dec 18, 2008 6:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I'm Ready To Give Up... |
Oh shit... you're right. I was thinking of #107 "it is only permissible to cry at a movie when the hero's dog is killed." Sorry. |
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| Author: | ttzuma [ Thu Dec 18, 2008 6:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I'm Ready To Give Up... |
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| Author: | SteveVernon [ Thu Dec 18, 2008 7:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I'm Ready To Give Up... |
| Damn, they killed the dog???
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| Author: | RavenFaery [ Thu Dec 18, 2008 8:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I'm Ready To Give Up... |
I'd love to read it! Everyone's given such great advice. Remember that instincts are there for a reason. Keep your ending. |
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| Author: | gord rollo [ Fri Dec 19, 2008 12:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I'm Ready To Give Up... |
Hi Tony, I agree that you shouldn't give up. I'm also sorry I was over on the other topic blowing my own horn before I read this one. Rejections suck - no two ways about it - but everyone gets them. Everyone gets LOTS of them. Sure, I'm on a bit of a role right now, but 2 years ago I was you, banging my head on the wall wondering why the hell I never get a break. I agree with Steve in that I think long and hard about my endings before I type the first word of a story. Even with my novels, I map them out. With my newest book, STRANGE MAGIC, I've had the final sentence in my head for years. I don't use a rigid outline because I like to have room to wander, but I do need to know my starting and ending points. With short fiction, I think it is even more important. Better writers than me, guys like Pic and Tim Lebbon, they might freewheel things a bit more but for me I need at least a skeleton sketch of my proposed idea before I start to write. Ironically, the short story I am working on right now I'm totally winging it. It's a bonus story for the deluxe hardcover version of Strange Magic and just for the sheer hell of it I've decided to let my muse loose on this one. I had a title (PEELER) and the vaguest of thoughts about self-mutilation and I just started typing. I've got 2500 words banged out and it seems to be going pretty well. Still no idea how it's going to end as I haven't even come face to face with the title character yet, but I have an appointment booked for later tonight - lol! Anyway, it's a fun little diversion, but for me it's not the way I usually write and you might find it helps you to plot your stories out a tad before diving in. Some think this stifles creativity, but I disagree. It organizes me and speeds me up. Of course, just because it works for me and Steve, doesn't mean it is right for you. We all find our own ways in this crazy life and the only way to do that is to keep writing. Keep reading. Keep stretching. And if it makes you feel better, I was rejected a few months ago for that Ed Lee tribute anthology coming out soon, Infernally Yours. I wrote what I thought (and still do, to be honest) a kick ass story called, LOVE; IN PIECES but it didn't make the cut. Such is life. I'll get over it... some day:( Cheers, Gord |
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| Author: | ttzuma [ Fri Dec 19, 2008 9:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I'm Ready To Give Up... |
Thanks Gord. It may sound horrible, but it does make me feel a lot better that fantastic writers like you and Steve still get rejected once in a while and that Pic got 300 rejection notices before he hit it big. It just seems impossible that any of you guys would write something that wouldn't be happily accepted by any publisher or magazine. I was discussing this with Thad last evening, he is great for giving pep talks, and both of us have had our moments lately where we think everything we do sucks. I have two weeks off starting this afternoon and I am going to start on a new story thats been kicking around my head for about 6 months. I already have the ending and the whole story plotted so we'll see how this one comes out. I can't thank everyone enough for the p.m.'s, e mails, and advice. We all get depressed over something, and its nice to have some encouraging words from your buddies. And I'll paraphrase Thad...."you got pep talks from some of the greatest writers out there.." In my wildest dreams, I never would have thought that was possible. How cool is that! Tony |
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| Author: | wm ollie [ Sat Dec 20, 2008 10:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I'm Ready To Give Up... |
damn near everything I've ever written has, in some point in time, been rejected by somebody... sad, huh? |
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