Joe Hill revisited

DGM · **Posted:** Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:58 pm

Just thought I'd start a new thread regarding Mr. Hill and his work since we went off on a bit of a tangent with this topic in an unrelated thread.

horrordude · **Posted:** Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:08 am

Hey, DGM, how rocks the cowbell?

Another thing I think will happen with Joe Hill, is after his third and fourth novels come and go, even if they're good, decent reads, he's going to always have the diehard King fans saying, "Well, where's his Dead Zone, and where's his Salem's Lot." Whether he likes it, or not, his Poppa wrote certain Horror novels that will be considered masterpiece's for a long, long time.

I just think it would have been crazy if he could have kept it a secret, and then after he had five or six novels under his belt, could have said, "Hey, guess who Dad is?"

DNiallWilson · **Posted:** Fri Sep 26, 2008 8:45 am

Whether or not being part of a famous literary heritage gives one a leg up is a bit like asking whether or not being born into a family of trapeze artists gets a better shot at joining the Circus. If Stephen King, who is not only one of the most popular authors of all time, but an English teacher as well, is your dad, and your mother is a novelist and talented poet...it seems likely you would have all the necessary resources to learn the craft...and you'd certainly have access to publishers, whether or not you chose to use it - in a world where having a part in a TV Sitcom is enough that, partnered with a ghost-writer, you can have a NYT Best-selling book - how can this even be a question?

The thing is, I wonder if Joe will ever just get the honest chance to be judged on his writing? I'll tell you the truth, I'm (personally) ready to move on from his "genes" and see where he takes his writing. It's been good enough so far to catch my interest - about as good as you'd expect from a talented newcomer. Not his fault his father's Steve King, but surely it's a blessing in many ways that he is...and a curse.

-DNW

undead · **Joined:** Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:54 pm **Posts:** 861

I can really believe that he used his family's influence in getting his book out there. His dad as enough clout to land a top tier agent with the big NY firms who will shop his work to the biggest and best publishing houses.

As a hopeful writer who is wrapping up the final edits on his debut novel, I am facing the huge and disparaging task of finding an agent willing to get my story on people's desks. Everything I've heard says it's incredibly tough and to prepare for rejection after rejection. Do I think Hill had to go through that the way ordinary folks do? Not a chance.

That said, while Hill's debut novel showed massive character gaffes which did impact the storyline, it was a debut and shows promise. His short story collection was indeed hit or miss so right now, my verdict is out on Hill. Will he be a horror great? I'm not convinced. As I've said in another post, writers like Sarah Langan are so good out of the gate, that it's hard to ascribe greatness to a writer simply because he has a good pedigree. Sometimes it takes a simply damn fine novel...which Heart Shaped Box simply was not. It was okay, ut not great by a stretch.

Nanci · **Joined:** Sun Oct 31, 2004 11:48 am **Posts:** 4992

Joe Hill had many short stories published before anyone even knew who he was. I think that his father may have had some influence in getting Heart Shaped Box published but I think his work stands on it's own merit. I really enjoyed Voluntary Committal and 20th Century Ghosts and that was before I knew who his father was.

I honestly think that he would have prefered to remain Joe Hill and not be compared to his father.

It may just be that the whole "Stephen King's son" thing was a publicity stunt on the part of Marrow to boost sales. If he really wanted to capitalize on his father's name, I believe he would have done so early on.

undead · **Joined:** Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:54 pm **Posts:** 861

Nanci, I bought his short story collection and found many weak stories contained within. Again, I was at a loss why it was spoken about like the second coming. King's early short stories were head and shoulders better.

And, if Hill was never outed and the heir to King's throne, I wonder what honest reviews/sales really would have been for Heart Shaped Box...

DNiallWilson · **Posted:** Fri Sep 26, 2008 1:33 pm

OneMoreJustinCase · **Joined:** Fri Mar 25, 2005 6:53 pm **Posts:** 37

I voted no because I felt at first he was judged more on his work with few actually knowing his pedigree... but now, well hell yeah the fact his dad is SK probably doesn't hurt too bad

DGM · **Posted:** Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:41 pm

DNiallWilson · **Posted:** Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:54 pm

And I didn't mean to imply otherwise. Although, I bet when he sees another topic come up like this he's ready to go for the chainsaw (lol) ANOTHER price of pedigree...at least we're not Paparazzi's ...just readers and writers with an interest...

D

wm ollie · **Joined:** Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:34 pm **Posts:** 363

Of course it gave him a leg up, how could it not?

I personally don't see anything wrong with it--- not that I'm saying anybody here does, by the way.

An Evil of One · **Joined:** Sat Aug 16, 2008 10:24 pm **Posts:** 70

horrordude · **Posted:** Fri Sep 26, 2008 7:32 pm

I think when all is said and done, this is a 'time will tell' situation.

I just meant after a while, if I were Hill, I'd get sick of hearing, "Well, he's still not cranking out the masterpieces like his old man."

But then I could be wrong there, too. If he gets better and better as all good writers usually do, he could very well start to crank out what some would call 'Horror Masterpieces', like his dear-old-dad.

wm ollie · **Joined:** Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:34 pm **Posts:** 363

johng · **Posted:** Mon Sep 29, 2008 1:23 am

I went ahead and voted yes, but only because there's no question it helped with his book sales and probably gave the publisher more incentive to take him on.

That said, Heart-Shaped Box is a fine novel and could have easily found a publisher somewhere with the King brand attached.

An author's work work would really have to stink for me to be irritated by something incidental like book sales related to a famous father.

TMLCrow · **Posted:** Mon Sep 29, 2008 7:53 pm

I voted yes. I only think it helped with sales when the secret got out. Where I think it truly helped him was knowing the agents and editors and publishers that his dad knows, and who would be receptive to submissions and what type of stories they were looking for, especially in the first year or two of his career.

Time will tell if he's got the talent to hang around, but even if he does, he's probably damned to hear "Why can't you do ______ like your dad?" That's the shame of it.

Thad

undead · **Joined:** Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:54 pm **Posts:** 861

It's absolutely a double edged sword. Sure, Hill got the big break by getting top agents, top publishers, an anthology in limited edition, a comic book deal. But, he will always have to face the inevitable comparison to his father who did re-invigorate the horror genre.

King is pretty much spent as a horror writer in my eyes, but he left his mark. I think folks are looking at Hill to be the heir apparent to King as he has the pedigree and wants to write horror. Time will certainly tell if he has the chops to fill some mighty huge shoes. Knowing the road he has ahead of him, I wouldn't be surprised if Joe Hill would have preferred the old fashioned and substantially more frustrating route to getting published, etc because at least that way, expectations would be lower and if a book is not well received, it wouldn't have the same effect.

horrordude · **Posted:** Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:35 am

I just started Heart-Shaped Box today, and while I'm far from finished with it, so far, I would only commit to stating that Joe Hill's a good writer, and nowhere near his Poppa.

Anything can happen, I'm not done with the book yet, but so far I only think he'll wind up being a really good writer one day, but right now I don't think there should be any comparison with his father's writing. I don't remember anyone on here saying he was better, or as good as his father, I'm just refering to a lot of reviews and discussions you see in other places.

I think if anyone would have to make a comparison, the only way would be to compare Heart-Shaped Box with King's first, Carrie; there's an interesting question:

Who on here who has read both Heart-Shaped Box and Carrie, and think Heart-Shaped Box was better?

Kenwood · **Posted:** Wed Dec 03, 2008 5:06 am

I'm not even sure he should be compared, pedigree or not. His style is entirely different, and I'd be hard-pressed to even call him a horror writer at this point. Dark fiction, sure, but maybe not horror. Either way, his stories dont have that ka-pow!, but I'm not sure that's even necessary. I still find myself thinking about "Pop Art" and "You Will Hear The Locust Sing" and "Abraham's Boys."

I think it was inevitable that his identity came out, the dude looks just like his father. But I think his main problem now is everyone comparing. People can say they're judging him on his own merits, but it's not true. When all of his words are filtered through the King-o-Meter (and it happens all the time, it's happening in this thread), that's not judging him by his own work.

Personally, I think he's a great writer. Subtle but powerful. And I don't care who his father is. I'm not even that big of a King fan; some of his so-called classics are self-indulgent turds in my book. Haha. Hill is a really good writer, though.

horrordude · **Posted:** Wed Dec 03, 2008 8:44 am

Laurel in Ely · **Posted:** Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:26 pm

King and Hill are both terrific writers with different styles and I thoroughly enjoy reading both. Is Heart-Shaped Box as good as Carrie? No. I can't think of another first book that is.

King will always be number one with me and I will continue to read Hill's offerings. If he starts putting out crap, I'll be sure to post my opinions here.

horrordude · **Posted:** Wed Dec 03, 2008 5:14 pm

johng · **Posted:** Wed Dec 03, 2008 7:05 pm

I had voted yes originally, but maybe I didn't think the poll question through. There's no doubt the King brand helped with sells, but if I remember right, Hill successfully kept his identity a secret up to the sell of his novel and even for a time after.

And an observation that's just now occured to me, King's new collection Just After Sunset is very similar in style to Hill's collection 20th Century Ghosts and they both left the same impression:
Well written, but no bite.

Kenwood · **Posted:** Thu Dec 04, 2008 2:45 pm

horrordude · **Posted:** Thu Dec 04, 2008 4:37 pm

I just started Just After Sunset, and have only read the first two stories last night, and both were pretty mild. They were worth reading the one time but I wouldn't read them again.

These stories better pick up, or Just After Sunset will be King's first story collection I won't like.

flahorrorwriter · **Posted:** Thu Dec 04, 2008 7:30 pm

I voted Yes but I may be in the minority in that I really enjoyed HSB. While the short stories in 20th Century Ghost ranged from horror to more thoughtful, even poignant works, I still left that collection with a sense of awe at this new talent. But that's just me.

Kenwood · **Posted:** Fri Dec 05, 2008 12:58 am

horrordude · **Posted:** Fri Dec 05, 2008 4:58 am

I'm nearing the middle of Heart-Shaped Box, and I can't decide what to say right now. It's good ... it's keeping me reading, but I haven't been assaulted by any miraculous writing yet.

So far, so good-just nothing mind-blowing.

An Evil of One · **Joined:** Sat Aug 16, 2008 10:24 pm **Posts:** 70

It doesn't matter that Stephen King is his father, because the man can write! In my opinion, his work stands on it's won whether it's 20th Centrury Ghosts, Heart-Shaped Box, or his comic series Locke & Key. I look very much forward to his upcoming work!!!

horrordude · **Posted:** Sat Dec 06, 2008 12:14 pm

He can defintely write and keep you reading, I wouldn't keep reading if I thought the guy couldn't write. Heart-Shaped Box is a good read, so far, just not blowing me away yet.

I think when everyone heard this was King's son they thought he'd become like his old man when he started out, and people have to just realize he's write what he wants to and not books that people will compare to classics that his father created.

I have 20th Century Ghosts on the way, and also We're All In This Together, by his other son, Owen King. I'm very curious to see how Owen King's writing is.

If anyone on here has read Owen King, let me know your thoughts on his writing.

Joe Hill revisited

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