....?!?

I'm curious too. The amazon reviews have put me off so far.

I've read it, in fact I finished it last night. I'm perplexed by the novel. In a way the marketing of the book was neat, making it look and feel as if it was an old, moldy tome that had been sitting in a used book store for years and years. The premise was also somewhat fresh, with the book itself being the main character and telling the story.

But the novelties wore thin and actually became distracting after a while. There was some really good story telling in the novel, and quite often I read flashes of the old Clive Barker when he was in his sadistic glory, but the pace and timing of the book was interrupted so often by the gimmick that often I lost my hold on the story.

Since we know the end of the novel from the first pages, there was little suspense at the climax. In fact, in my opinion, the ending of the book was just one big bore.

I am happy that an author is trying new things, and I have to admit, as far as new ideas go, this one was kind of cool, but I just don't think Barker pulled it off.

Ttzuma

Welcome aboard by the way!

Care to explain your name?

Tt

well, my name is John Copeland. In british football cliche, commentators often refer to players as, for example "the boy smith had a good game" etc. I've always found it amusing so I applied it to my own name as a username. I'm getting a bit old for it now but it's easy for me to remember when registering on a board.

I've read a bit of Barker and liked it mostly. Weaveworld was good and I read the first 2 Abarat books which were good in parts but a little irritating as well. Almost childrens' books. He's taking too long between those books though and he's going to lose momentum, not to mention peoples interest.

Well, I may be in the minority but really liked Mr. B Gone. It was vintage Barker, using dark and macabre comedy to manipulate the reader. Presentation-wise, the book looked and felt like an old, old text left alone moldering on a shelf. And the first person perspective was pretty cool as well. Not his best, but still a pleasant and enjoyable romp through Barker-land.

Nice to meet you John!

I also enjoyed Weaveworld as well as The Imajica. My favorite Barker novel is Galilee.

Tt

Clive Barker is one of my favorite authors: the guy whose books I grab the minute they come out, regardless of money situations.

With Mister B. Gone, I was let down big time. Good? Somewhat. But anywhere near as good as classics like The Books of Blood, Galilee, The Great And Secret Show? No way. It had its moments but I was shocked that Clive let this come out as novel for his millions of readers.

There's always next time: I hope.

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"There's no law, no law anymore - I wanna steal from the rich and give to the poor."
~The Ramones~

I haven't heard enough good things about it to make me bother.

I just recomended Barker to John in another thread for a fantastical horror novel. The Damnation Game is the most overt horror novel he's written and it's one of my favorites. I also liked Imajica and right now I'm reading Galilee.

I had put off reading both The Great and Secret Show and Everville because I was waiting for the third book in his trilogy of The Art, but since it looks like that may never happen I guess I'll go ahead them anyways now.

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Well, there have been a couple of flipper babies...yeah.

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"There's no law, no law anymore - I wanna steal from the rich and give to the poor."
~The Ramones~

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Well, there have been a couple of flipper babies...yeah.

Hey, tt, I agree with you on Galilee. To me it was like reading an epic horror poem. And when you get to the end of a book and wish it went on for another 600 pages, flipping back to key scenes and passages that you found brilliant, you know it's a great book.

The first Barker I read was Imajica; I hadn't read anything like it at the time and it just blew me away. When it comes to fantasy horror, I can only get into them if they blow me away. And books like Galilee, Imajica, Sacrament, The Great And Secret Show, all did the job.

Cold Heart Canyon I liked a lot, and was surprised when a lot of reviews slammed it. I just hope next time around Clive goes for the throat, because Mister B. Gone could have been a lot better with a writer of his caliber.

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"There's no law, no law anymore - I wanna steal from the rich and give to the poor."
~The Ramones~

Cold Heart Canyon dissapointed me. There were some excellent portions of horror in the book, mostly towards the end in the room with the painting, but Barker seemed to be off his game here. It was almost like he was trying to write a more accesable novel in order to appeal to more people. The sex scenes didn't feel right to me, I had a hard time with the main character...all in all the story just felt forced to me.

On the other hand Sacrament, with its lowered levels of horror and its depiction of a gay man's trials and tribulations did work for me in a way that I didn't think it would. The story was engaging and you felt for the characters.

I have to reread The Damnation Game. Johng's opinion of the novel has made me reconsider my original one. He has seen something in it that I haven't and since I trust his opinons I'm gonna give it another shot.

As far as The Imajica and Weaveworld, next to Galilee they are my favorite Barker novels. The Great And Secret Show and Everville are also excellent but for me were a bit confusing in parts, I had to reread sections and kept going back and forth in those two.

And no one writes short horror stories better than Clive Barker in my opinion.

Tt

Coldheart Canyon didn't work for me either. The main character was whiney. I can deal with unsympathetic and even dispicable, but not whiney.

You may think I'm nuts for suggesting this, but a lot of the sex and gore honestly started to seem gratuitous. And this is Clive Barker! I know what did I expect right? But this was the first time I ever felt this way with a Barker story.

The part where the head of his fan club is attacked by the ostrich things and then her encounter with the goat boy, especially the dream afterwards, that's where I decided, yeah this has gotten gratuitous now.

Coldheart Canyon wasn't erotic and since the story is concerened with carnality the erotic isn't neccesary anyways I admit. But with Barker's imagination, it's as if he can't stop himself and he blows things out of proportion. Many times the incidents of gore and sex felt forced and out of tune with the scene.

I had originaly stopped about a hundred pages into The Damnation Game. I had hit a slow part that I still feel could have been edited out. What made me return to it was reading an old review in the Magazine of Fantasy and Science Fiction while I was at a used book store.

The way the reviewer wrote of it, Barker had just reinvented the wheel for horror and dark fantasy. It reminded me of how Perdido Street Station(a new book then) changed all the rules and I tried to imagine what a shock to the scene Barker must have been in the 80's. I could certainly remember being floored by Cabal when I read it in junior high. The Damnation Game goes against the usual formulas horror novels have been built on for a century. There's nothing really familiar about it.

My favorite parts are just scenes with observations about human nature more than the supernatural. When the man the bodyguard is supposed to be protecting hosts a party, gets him drunk and tries to have him perform a sex act with a prostitute for the amusement of his guests.

Or when the bodyguard realises that the one employee of Whitehead's he liked may have been turned into a sort of zombie slave and finds the thing hiding in a restroom sobbing.

I haven't thought about Sacrament in a long while. I remember I passed on it when it first came out because the main character was gay and at that age I didn't think I could get into a story with a homosexual as the main character. I'll have to pick it up one of these days.

There are a lot of books I wouldn't have read years ago that have gone on my TBR. I read a lot of books as a kid I probably wasn't mature enough to apperciate then that I've thought about recently and wondered how they would read today. Two of my of my favorite authors, Gene Wolfe and Ramsey Campbel,l I know I wouldn't have liked when I was younger. It's amazing to me how far my tastes in books have evolved over the years.

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Well, there have been a couple of flipper babies...yeah.

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"There's no law, no law anymore - I wanna steal from the rich and give to the poor."
~The Ramones~

I don't think you have to be gay in order to understand that attraction varies. Some men love obese woman, some men love physically flawed woman, some men love domineering woman...wants, needs, and tastes vary. There are many different genre's of sexuality, as horror fiction is a genre of general fiction I believe a gay lifestyle is just one aspect of sexuality.

I look around me and see gay men and woman going through all of the same types of conflicts, emotions, and everyday struggles that I go through. I have some good friends whose daughter is gay and I see her in a very loving relationship and knowing her well, I don't think it odd at all. I attended her wedding in Boulder and met so many young women whose families have disowned them and have struggled all of their lives due to discrimination and these women were as kind, gentle, warm, and loving as you and me.

When I read Sarcament knowing that there was a gay plot line it didn't bother me in the least. I knew that Barker wouldn't be promoting homosexuality or exploiting the lifestyle... I just knew that he was going to write a horror story whose main character happened to be gay. Turns out I was right.

Tt

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Well, there have been a couple of flipper babies...yeah.