Back when Delirium Books was in full swing with forums and all that stuff. Staley set up a website for selling books and horror related items. Things seemed to be going well.
Then this ALTAR 13 thing started when I wasn't paying attention. People seemed to be bidding on the rights to buy books or some such thing. I didn't understand it and never got involved.
Can anybody fill me in on what the point of it was?

This explains in excruciating detail what Altar 13 was going to be, although I have no idea what ever happened to the imprint.

http://horrordrive-in.com/smf/index.php ... 003.0;wap2

Interesting discussion. From Horror Drive-in, from the look of it. Thanks for digging it up.
Even with all the negatives poking through, it never dawned on Antmusic or anyone else in this thread that this was Shane's first step away from the Delirium imprint, being that this is simply a re-working of the Dark Essentials line under another name with added costs...

I didn't click on the link, so forgive me if I'm repeating what's been said at HorrorDrive-In, but my understanding was that Altar 13 was Delirium's imprint to reprint books that had already been published in paperback from other publishers. Altar 13 did a deluxe edition of my novel SNOW after it had previously been published with Leisure Books. Not sure if it's still an active imprint or not.

Ronald

It is amazing how little I can find on the web about ALTAR 13. A guy like Shane can do pretty much anything he wants to and there is apparently little in the way of repercussions.
I would imagine he doesn't dare show his face at Horror Conventions, where a goodly number of people would like to talk to him about money and perceived broken promises.
The only reason I started re-visiting this subject is that Brian Hodge has a novella being published by Shane. It fucking hurts bad to buy a book from that asshole. Real bad.
To make matters worse, it looks like Larry Roberts isn't publishing books through Bloodletting Press anymore. And guess fucking what? Larry gave Morning Star Press to Shane some time ago. Larry Roberts has a deal with Edward Lee to do his next 4 novels. Now if these go to Morning Star so that Larry can avoid his lifetime subscriber base...............I am dying, fucking dying...

Mr. Malfi, congratulations on writing a book that deserves such upscale treatment! Hundreds, if not thousands of horror and horror related books are put on the market every year, and to be given such a nice production means that that volume will still be readable and in great condition a couple hundred years from now!
Shane Staley puts together high quality books. No question about that. He also has a discerning eye for good writing and his team does a stand up job of editing these works.
A few years ago he realized his business model didn't work. There is no doubt he poured every daylight hour and half the night into his venture. The failing economy and a poor choice for quantity over quality doomed high end horror publishing, and it looked to him that he would be a casualty.
One of the ways he bootstrapped his business in the beginning was offering lifetime subscriptions to readers for everything published by Delirium. At the rate of thousands of dollars per person, me among them.
When he figured out he couldn't continue to honor this commitment he simply changed the name on the binding and kept on rolling, leaving us longtime supporters behind.
ALTAR 13 was the same reprint dealio as Dark Essentials, except "Delirium" was missing from the binding.
Did Shane break the law? Probably not. Are the books he publishes high quality? Yes they are.
But you might notice Mr. Staley has very little or nothing to say on public forums, and for a very good reason.
There are many of us who feel burned.
I also never got involved with ALTAR 13 because it felt off. Couldn't wrap my head around it, and I know very little about what books got published, what promises got made. And how the subscribers feel about the marque.
Anybody reading this who did subscribe? Please let us know what happened, especially if you feel duped or burned...

I feel that I have to say something here, and I do not wish to get anyone angry or to think that I am goading them, but I seriously wonder why anyone would buy a lifetime subscription with a small press or an author. Something that seems too good to be true usually isn't. In case's like these, I would think the business model was unsustainable. If you guys got your monies worth, i.e., received goods worth more than the upfront money, at least you made out ahead.

I've seen two other offers like this involving the small press and an author in the past, both of them ended with a broken promise. I feel bad for anyone caught in a contract like this if their intention was to help out the press or the author.

The many folks with Cemetery Dance lifetime subs are not crying too much. However, they almost went under before Blockade Billy reversed their fortunes.

I'm not a bit peeved I have a ThunderStorm Books lifetime sub. I totally trust the publisher Paul and we've made big bucks already.

I'm glad it's working out in some cases. Nobody likes to see something like this fail.

Part of the fun is being part of a startup. A bit of a gamble, but those of us who enjoy quality editions like the upside possibilities!

: )

I was an Altar 13 member, and would have liked to see it continue. What bothers me much more than that was Delirium said that any subscribers who purchased all the 2011 books would receive a bonus book called Horrorwired 2. Last I heard it still hasn't been produced and I really don't think at this point it ever will.

Shane Staley certainly won't reply to any of my messages. Have you tried contacting his directly and see what he says? He has a vast history of over-inflated promises and hyperbole but this sounds actionable.

I asked Shane about that. You are right. No HorrorWired 2 will be produced. Neither will the promised hard cover for paying to join the old and long gone Delirium Insider. He says we got enough free material already. Well, I just feel ripped off.

I feel the same way, Kresby. If you tell someone they'll receive a bonus book for doing something, then they do it, you should stand by that. I bought several books that year that I normally wouldn't have just so I wouldn't lose out on the bonus book, then the bonus book never gets produced.

So I thought this guy just used legalisms to get away with what he wanted. Looks like he actually broke written promises that involved people paying him money for product never received.
So Shane Staley says people got enough free stuff off him already? Wow. This guy is a real gem.

Yes Jim he stated to me that we got plenty of original material but only in relation to the Delirium Insider book. We paid I think $20 for the membership with promise of a book and on-line free original material. The book never was produced. HorrorWired 2 also not done because he can get away with it I guess.

I am currently reading THE PARASITE by Ramsey Campbell in the Delirium "Ultra Series" edition. I have no clue what it originally cost but I picked it up for 50 bucks or so. Gorgeous book in an elaborate clamshell. Leather through and through. I have picked up a few other leather bound Delirium "lettered" editions lately for a quarter of what someone paid for them at some time.
So much for these fantastic books keeping their value. Lettered copies of Staley's hardcover originals go wanting for a buyer priced half of what they sold for.
Great looking books, and occasionally with words in an interesting order!
It must burn Staley's ass to be selling crappy looking mini hardcovers with pictured boards. What a letdown from what he used to produce. The out of focus blurry cover art that wouldn't make the cut at a Cow College exhibition, but I suppose it is all he can afford.
I am not sure if anyone still sells limited edition signed hardcovers with the promise that they are "collectable." These things rarely hold their value.
I am currently expanding my collection of Silver Salamander leather bounds, and 50$ is my upper limit. Wonderful books with the included words in proper order! THE CONVULSION FACTORY by Hodge is so cool.
I am getting a copy of Hodge's WHOM THE GODS WOULD DESTROY in a crappy miniature format and pictured boards, published by Dark Fuse. It ain't going to look like much next to my other editions of his work. But you get what you pay for. And apparently Staley doesn't feel the need to pay for anything in the way of a decent production.

It is almost unbelievable what I am seeing on eBay lately. A 26 copy Necro Publications chapbook by Edward Lee has been bid up to $260. These are not built with all the love and care in the world, folks.... Must be the unusual order of the words on the various pages...
I am seeing Delirium lettered editions go unsold for under a hundred. I picked up a Delirium "Ultra Edition" of a Ramsey Campbell classic for $54 just to see the binding craftsmanship. It was pretty cool.
It looks like Larry Roberts of Mistakonic Publications got stuck with a shitload of unsold Delirium backstock. I know Bad Moon Books got hammered by Staley with all the unsellable backstock from the HorrorMall debacle.
It's so bad right now that a signed limited Delirium title by Gifune, sold by a major eBay player doesn't break $7 in bids...

Look at it this way - the low eBay prices are good for buyers. And it's not like the authors are losing any money from it.

The Ed Lee hardcover chapbook sold for $322. Unreal!
The secondary market has direct bearing on the author's current reputation and saleability. Would you offer a healthy contract to an author whose books do not sell out and steadily drop in price? Perhaps an author in current vogue whose publications are snapped up would be more your "style?"

I'm not going to defend Shane Staley, as I've been a victim of his questionable business decisions, but is he really that different from many of the other small press publishers? Certainly his co-conspirator Larry Roberts is just as bad; not delivering promised lettered editions, creating imprints to avoid his contractual obligations and adopting the "you've had enough free stuff" approach.
Both of these men enjoyed the boom years of the small press market, but it's when the chips are down that the true test of a man's character is revealed and, when the recession hit, both of them were found wanting.
More widely, it seems to me many small press publishers have let down their customers to some extent, everything from outright fraud to sharp practices. As well as Delirium & Bloodletting, the likes of Endeavor Press, Full Moon Publications, Necessary Evil Press, Cargo Cult Press, PS Publishing, Cemetery Dance and Subterranean Press have all been guilty to some degree over the years, and that's just the ones I'm aware of.
So, yes, the Altar 13 debacle was a travesty, but shouldn't we the customers bear some responsibility to make sure we know exactly what we're signing up to before we hand over our cash. It's not like there aren't warning signs out there.

<<<but shouldn't we the customers bear some responsibility to make sure we know exactly what we're signing up to before we hand over our cash. It's not like there aren't warning signs out there.>>>

Well put. In fact, both your posts were well stated. Welcome to Horror World Laymonfan!

Mr. Keene is an established author with a wide fan base. Congratulations to him and his ability to take that which is inside him and make it real.
Thunderstorm Books was established at a difficult time in the economy and at a terrible time for the horror signed limited market. I personally would have run from the thought of starting publishing at that point. We were watching imprints fall left and right and Paul starts one up aimed at the same audience. This is a pretty cool deal. Very solid. Very nice. Now if he could talk Mr. Lee out of working with BLP (Miskatonic) I couldn't be happier!
I have been noticing more and more Thunderstorm titles on the secondary market. I am not sure what this means but I do keep my eyes open.
Most author's output has a short shelf life. It reads well today, and satisfies various immediate needs. Most novels, as cool as they are in the moment, lose appeal over time. This is true in horror as well as fiction in general.
Richard Laymon had the touch. A book like BEAST HOUSE is a s fun to read today as when it first came out. To my thinking, a fair bit of Ed Lee's output also passes the test of time. As big a fan of Charlee Jacob as I am, I run up against various shortcomings in her work. SOMA is fine, but I wish she could have had a great editor to work with her through her career. She has such fine ideas and a sharp mind. I think her intelligence got in the way. Her publishers knew she was smarter than they were and they didn't attempt to correct her errors, thinking perhaps that there was a reason behind the goofups.
Being able to sell books means plenty. To create anything that other people want is very tough. To those who succeed I send my best wishes.
My personal viewpoint is that I want to invest in things that will stand the test of time and have value in the future. Monetary value. Value that can stand the test of the marketplace. I enjoy fine books and I decided to make collecting these nice objects one of the things I do.
I have personal ethics. I don't cheat, steal, or mis-represent. I have personal failings, but attempt to life my life in a way that doesn't involve fucking people over.
I have bought and sold thousands of hardcover books, and mostly made a profit. I find satisfaction in this. My personal collection is about a tenth of what it was five years ago, and I feel I mostly made good decisions in selling. I do regret selling my almost complete Laymon hardcover collection! I think about that lettered copy of CUTS and just about cry....

Wow, there was a lot to read in your post, but I don't think there's anything I disagree with. All good points.

Well, except for Cuts. I hated that book. But as someone who has never been able to afford a Lettered Edition of anything, I can only imagine the sting of having to sell one.